Bensinlukt CX 20 TRE - dåliga slangar från tanken
PÅ 2005-08-14:
Ända sedan jag köpte bilen i januari har det luktat bensin om den. Men inga läckor syns. Har kollat påfyllningsröret från tanklocket till tanken och det är inte sprucket. Har bytt bensinslangar i motorrummet, de var spruckna och i dåligt skick. För någon vecka sedan tankade jag fullt och toppade upp efter automatisk avstängning av bensinpumpen. Sedan märkte jag att det rann bensin under bilen, från tanken. Körde därifrån med viss oro i sinnet...
Lossade idag de två plastlocken under bagagerumsmattan för att inspektera anslutningarna vid tankarmaturen och såg att bensinslangarna var allt annat än fräscha; spruckna och kladdiga och där doftade kraftigt av bensin. Dessa måste bytas alltså.
De främre slangarna har jag alltså redan bytt och nu skall jag byta de bakre. Skall inhandla slangarna på OK som har kvalitetsslang från Trelleborg att sälja.
Några tips inför jobbet? (Förutom käcka råd att inte arbeta i stearinljusbelysning eller med cigg i munnen... )
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Lars H:
Det är möjligt att byta dessa utan att ta ned tanken. Men tänk på att tejpa ändarna på slangarna när du ska skjuta in dem mellan tank och kaross så att de inte blir skit i dem.
PÅ 2005-10-22:
Fixat! Lossade slangarna vid tankarmaturen, lät slangklämmorna sitta kvar och knöt fast elsladd där som dragtråd att dra upp de nya slangarna med. Drog sedan ned slangarna från undersidan av bilen (var på GDS-hallen igen och använde billyften).
Slangarna är ganska korta, någon halvmeter bara, och ligger tillsammans i en sorts plasthylsa som skyddar mot nötning. På insidan av höger rambalk är de skarvade mot plaströr som sticks in i slangarna och sedan fixeras skarven med slangklämmor. Plaströren sitter i öppna klämmor som monterats på rambalken.
Det var lite trångt att dra upp de nya slangarna – det är ett ganska trångt utrymme de skall igenom mellan tankens ovansida och bagagerumsgolvet - men det gick bra efter lite pillande. Utan dragtrådarna hade det blivit högst besvärligt.
Så nu skall beninslukten och även de svarta fläckarna på asfalten efter parkering vara ett minne blott!
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Spricka i påfyllningsröret
Error 2003-01-24:
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CX 20 TRE - 88. Jag har hål/spricka längst upp på mitt bränslepåfyllnadsrör. Har någon något förslag på lagning? Hur gör man för att demontera röret? Eller är det ett med tanken?
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n/a:
Ett av de lättare problemen faktiskt. Relativt vanligt att detta plaströr spricker så det kan vara svårt att hitta ett på skroten. Men det är lätt att ta bort:, skruva ur de fyra bultarna som sitter inne i tankpåfyllningslocket, lossa överfyllnadsslangen, (den smala på röret), lossa slangklämman som fäster röret med tanken, vips är allt loss. Detta gör självklar med fender borttaget och med bilen på högsta läge. Glöm ej att säkra bilen så den inte ramlar ner! Man borde väl kunna smälta ihop alternativt limma sprickorna med lämpligt lim?
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Returledningen lossat
John H 2002-05-21:
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Had a bit of dodgy CXperience today I thought you should hear of. Late evening yesterday I smelled petrol from
the engine compartment so this morning I had a quick look under but could see nothing, but it stunk! Had a
look later when I had a minute and now saw fuel GUSHING from below the car!! Turned off engine and it slowed down until it stopped. The black rubber pipe from the pressure regulator where it connects to the plastic return tubing behind the fuel filter where it 'disappears' had by now fully slipped off. *KA-BOOM*? No jubilee clip or anything at all to secure the two together. Very iffy! Have a look yourselves. It is very hard to get at, needless to say! I had no tools with me but found a shoe lace useful to lasso the plastic tube whilst pushing the rubber tubing down onto it! Now hobbling, till I get that lace back... Damn that bloody CX
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Richard M:
I had all the fuel pipes in the engine bay replaced on the earlier CX - someone who my mechanic knows lost a newly restored SM because he hadn't bothered to replace the fuel pipes - it went up in the guys driveway after a drive.
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Doftar bensin
Crist (RO) 2000-08-14:
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Why do I have a smell of fuel in the car when everything is in order, pipes, fuel filter, fuel pump, injectors and of course the fuel tank? (CX 25 Turbo 2).
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Marc B:
After I bought my CX I always had a slight smell of fuel in the car. Everything seemed to be OK, but there is a metal ring shaped insert in the fuel filler opening that should not be missing (on mine it turned out it was missing, and I only noticed it was missing by seeing it in a CX at a breaker). This ring prevents gas smell from entering into the boot from behind the filler cap. Once the smell is in the boot, it can be smelled inside the car as well, as ventilation is through the C-pillar. Inserting the ring, thus guaranteeing the filler cap closes and seals, made the smell disappear (ventilation of the tank is through a bottle-like device with a valve hanging upside down in the top of the rear-left wheel well leading through a little hose that is
attached behind the rear bumper.)
Svar från Citroen Andre / Andre Pol:
You did not mention if your car has an evaporative system with charcoal cannister. If your car has this I would first check this.
Svar från Augustin from Chicago:
I had the same problem and I was checking where is the smell coming from and ewerything seemed ok-ay then I observed that the gas meter in the tank has plastic support and it was all cracked and when I filled up the tank it started leaking up on the top till the level dropped so I took it out and glued-it with epoxy and since that no more problems.
Marc B:
I had a crack in the filler neck, leading to two bad things: 1. fuel running over the side of the car in curves with a full tank. Collecting in the tape that holds the trim line on, weakening the paint and letting water through, causing a line of rust exactly under the trim line. Grinded off, filled, resprayed, trim line reattached and all OK again. 2. smell of fuel in the car (petrol, not diesel, so a lot more volatile and noticeable). Crack was glued using that Bison 2 part glue, may indeed be epoxy. Held on perfectly. Crack in exactly the same place in the plastic filler neck of my Saab 99 T cured in exactly the same way. Did a lot of benefit to fuel consumption. May be these cracks occur by people trying to stuff the filler in too far? The filler here is usually angled and that can act as a lever when pushed in too far. Doesn't need to be accident result. The way your bumper is connected? On the side of the car, in the metal slot that is there since the stainless steel bumpered CX, fits a plastic part that the bumper clips in to. May be a bit fiddly. Both my GTi and my Prestige allow quite some play in here. Are all the screws there under the bootlid?
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Sealing Petrol Tanks
Scott R 2000-06-02:
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Light aircraft use riveted construction and the "fuel tank" is a part of the structure at the wing roots. Therefore they have to seal the rivet heads. If you visit your local light arcraft mechnic, you can get stuff they use for this. It's called (in the USA) "slushing compound". It's gooey clear stuff that you slosh around the inside of a tank and then pour the extra out. Let dry, add fuel, and drive away. I've used it in on an old motorcycle ('59 Velocette Venom) tank to glue the rust to the walls of the tank and stop idle jet blocking. You should of course talk to the mechanic to ensure that the stuff he sells you is compatible with current automotive fuels, which are differently formulated that aircraft fuel.
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Freda V 2004-08-07:
Try gluing it with 2-part epoxy. We glued a crack in the gas tank of an old VW Beetle belonging to my sister many years ago with 2-part epoxy (with some gas still in the tank which meant it was leaking when we repaired it) and it stayed leak-free until she sold it some years later.
Anti:
Bostik Kontaktlim blandat med lika delar aceton gjorde att min plåttank blev tät.
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Tank-ventilation
Piet B (NL) 2000-08-14:
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During my holidays in France I had a problem with fuel tank. When it was very hot in the afternoon and I opened
filler cap, fuel flushed out, even when the tank was nearly empty. When it was cold, in the morning, filler
cap was nearly to open. I thougt this was caused by insufficient ventilation. I solved the problem by drilling
a little hole in the filler cap. From that time on one could often smell fuel in the car. Not that good
solution: more action needed. Is there anybody who can explain the working of the tank-ventilation; especially
how the system prevents underpressure. I can imagine that overpressure can be prevent by inflating the big
ball. What may be: "an evaporative system with charcoal cannister"??
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Marc B:
A totally wrong solution. The gastank now vents to the boot. In the first place now you have to make the
filler cap airtight again. Did the explanation in the message to Marten. What is most likely the case on your
car is clogging of the ventilation hose. When the little tie-wrap that holds the vent line behind the bumper
lets go the line is hanging in the wheel well and may clog with mud. Inspection of the whole system is rather
easy: have an almost empty fuel tank, remove boot lining on left side, put car on high, remove wheelcover,
clean inside of wheel well (amazingly high!) with pressure hose or garden hose, open filler flap & cap, undo
four screws around filler opening, undo fuel filling hose at gas tank (low gas level required!). Push filler
opening in and drop assembly. When not cleaned, a lot of mud will fall down, and it should not enter the gas
tank... 'Coal bottle' is fastened inside wheel well with a clamp. Use a pocketlight (flashlight for those who
do not like literal translation from Dutch...) to see what I mean. Whole setup can now be lowered, and hoses
checked and cleaned. All work (except undoing hose clamp at fuel tank) can be done standing next to vehicle.
As Haynes says: refitting is a reversal of removal. Do not forget to fasten central locking unit on the outside
of the sealing rubber and adjust to correct position so it stay functioning properly. From the outside, there
should be the following layers: filler flap, car body panel, rubber seal, metal flange of filler setup, central
locking holder.
So there is the problem: the little hole only serves to let rainwater disappear into the wheelwell. The fuel
filler cap should close *airtight*. Under no way fuel should be able to get out. The fuel filler cap place
(how to describe the square space behind the flap) ventilates to the boot, through the hole for the central
locking pin. So any fuel staying there will be smelled in the boot, and thus in the car. I HAD to solve the
problem not only because of the smell, but also because the fuel ruins the paint below the trim strip, where
it gets trapped under the adhesive long enough to dissolve some varnish. Had to respray the whole panel from
under the trim line! Ventilation of the gas tank happens through a hose, connected at the top of the filling
hose, and connected to some bottle kind of can (looking at Andre's comment it may contain charcoal) with a
valve, and then connected to a hose to behind the rear bumper. This way wild cornering will not result in gas
spillage and the whole setup will keep the interior free of gas smell. The metal ring just fits inside the
filler opening, and has a flange that presses tight against the sealing rubber on the inside of the cap. There
is a spring behind the rubber ring in the cap to ensure firm contact. So: make sure the ring is there and make
sure you have an original cap (I have one spare as amongst others I suspected the cap).
Marten K:
My first question to the list was going to be if anyone had solved the problem of fuel gushing out through the
tank-ventilation when one takes a left turn. Not hindered by any knowledge on this point I was under the
impression that the little hole below the filler cap is the tank ventilation; even with the tank half-empty
fuel will come out of there if I throw it (her) into a lefthander fast enough. A friend of mine who owned a
Familiale has had the same experience, so I thought this was a common CX-flaw (one of many... ;-) So my
question is: is everyone else's fuel spilling out like this or am I (is she) missing something? (Marc, what
does that ring look like?). And: can I safely plug that hole below the filler cap?
Citroen Andre / Andre Pol / CXA:
There were problems with s2 cars cracking the plastic assembly that is behind the filler cap. Before we started
to produce our own fillernecks from steel, we ordered them from Citroen. The Citroen ones made us crazy.... One
out of 10 could be returned. Either directly or after a short period of time. The little punctures inside the
neck, that hold the thing in place, caused little hairline cracks. The evaporative systems caused us a lot of
headaches too. Poor quality valves, poor quality hoses and connectors. We even experienced charcoal cannisters
with leaks. I know as a fact that many European dealers screwed up the system because they did not understand
where it was for.
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Doftar bensin
Jöns 2002-08-09:
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Årsmodellen är 1989. Gissar på kolfiltret - för inte rostar en bensintank upp på en CX, eller?
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Johan G:
Ta en titt på gasevakueringssystemet uppe i höger hörn i bakluckan. Brukar vara lite si och så med tätheten...
Ole M S:
En CX-T2 kan lugte af benzin (bagtil) hvis niveau-måle-enheden (eller paking hertil) er blevet utæt.
Lyft up tæppet i bagagerummet, og aftag de to dæksler der sitter i bundpladen. Den høgre sitter over enheden for benzin til- og fra-løb til tanken, den venstre er niveau-måleren (med 3 forskellige stikforbindelser). Den der er våd er utæt !
NB! Pas myket på med at tænde og slukke lygter o.s.v. i nærheden af en utæt tank !
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Fuel smell
Marc B 2001-05-29:
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Noticing this discssion on fuel smell I have to say my previous car had this too. The reason was the metal ring
in the end of the filler tube was missing. And this is what the filler cap will seal against. When driving the
fuel smell will escape through the opening for the filler cap locking pin drive into the boot (it is quite a
large opening. one notices when cleaning the inside of the wheel well with a pressure hose). Before finding
this I disassembled the whole filller construction, which simply hangs behind the filler flap, also
incorporating this rubber seal. Take good care on which side of the rubber seal the mounting plate of this
locking pin drive is mounted. Using the wrong side will also create a gas tank vent into the boot. One more
thing to check: from the tank also a little hose is running to a 'bottle with valve' device (hanging in a
plastic clip back up in the wheel well, and from here on a little hose runs further. This is the intended vent
of the gas tank, the only way of ventilation when the filler hose is well sealed. This little hose should run
to behind the rear bumper and vent in the underpressure zone behind the car. It might be cut or ripped in the
wheelwell, also resulting in gas fumes inside. Just take a look.
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Michel R:
Here's another piece of information just to confuse the discussion. When I bought my 87 CX 25 TRI Estate, I
was told that Citroen had had a recall on the fuel expansion tank (the large tube just below the filler cap,
which gives the fuel room to expand its volume on warm days). It seems it was too small. As a result, with
the rubber seal in place, there were problems with fuel getting where it shouldn't (due to pressure, I believe)
as well as a smell of fumes. I have the larger, replacement expansion tank that my father gave me, but have not
swapped it in yet. I was told to leave the rubber seal off of the filler cap and things would be ok until I
made the swap. Since the gasket was already off, I followed the advice and it's been fine, so far.
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Gammal bensin
Sören L 2003:
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Har en båtmotor SUZUKI 70HK 4-takt som inte gick rent förra sommaren. Efter vinterservicen så upptäckte servicefirman att det berodde på vatten i bensinen. Finns det någon manick man kan köpa för att lösa problemet långsiktigt? Måste jag slänga den gamla bensinen (ca 30 l) eller kan jag "ta bort vattnet" ur den. Jag vill inte hälla i K-sprit, då jag har hört att packningar etc. inte tål det
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Bosse bildoktorn:
En bra lösning på problemet med vatten är ett bränslefilter med vattenavskiljare från en gammal dieselbil!
Släng inte den gamla bensinen. Bensin och vatten blandar sig inte. Häll upp bensinen i en ren hink och låt det stå still någon minut. Sedan kan du hälla över bensinen i en dunk med full koll på att vattnet i botten inte följer med.
Du behöver inte hälla i K-sprit, men jag har inte varit med om att packningar etc. skulle paja - det gör de däremot av rödsprit (metanol).
När motorn står still över vintern räcker det att fylla tanken och tappa ur förgasaren på hösten. När våren kommer öppnar du kranarna och startar motorn. Om motorn ska stå undanställd ännu längre är det bäst att tömma tanken, plocka bort den, hälla i lite olja (samma som i motorn) och vrida runt på tanken så att oljan täcker insidan. På så vis slipper du problem med kondensvatten och rost.
Ett annat skäl för att tömma tanken är att bensinens lättflyktiga beståndsdelar avdunstar. Det sker olika fort beroende på temperaturen, men om soppan har stått i mer än ett år kan motorn bli mycket svårstartad eller inte starta alls.
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Per B 2003:
Jag har skaffat mej en båt med en Volvo penta 4-takt inombordsmotor. Nu är det så att den har stått i ca 8 år med bensin i tanken, ca 60 liter 98 oktan. Har bensinen blivit dålig? Är det något som tar skada? Ska jag blanda i ny bensin? Vad kan jag göra? Det är väldigt bökigt att töma tanken. Jag har bytt slangar och filter samt fått igång motorn efter ett tag. Vad säger du, ska jag vända upp och ner på båten och tömma tanken? |
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Bosse bildoktorn:
Jo, bensinen har blivit dålig, men inget tar skada. Jo, du ska blanda i ny bensin samt k-sprit. Nej, du ska inte vända upp och ner på båten och tömma tanken - men visst är det en rolig tanke!
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